S1E0 How it started 3.23.17 transcript
(Auto transcript, currently unedited but it’s a start even though it’s pretty messed up right now. I’m struggling, if you’re bored feel free to edit and send to me heh)
0:00:00.1 S1: Yeah, being recorded to be worded out by the
0:00:04.6 S2: Yeast Aslan in writing all which is great, and he’s talking about how the bandits were a political movement, that was the Roman title for this political movement that said, basically, We want this natives, this promise to us is related with Jewish people, this is our land. We’re not gonna pay taxes, I can do anything. So when the temple priests come up to Jesus and they’re like, Yeah, so should we pay taxes, they’re saying, Are you abandoned or you… Are you this group of people… And he says, Well, whose faces on Render unissued render to God that we just got. So he’s saying, Sure, give you money to Caesar. That’s fine, which this will be fine. But then he says, render to God, that’s which is God, which is telling the temple priest, fuck the Romans, like The hell with you all is saying this land is our state, he’s saying Israel is a rendering, which is God, which is sensitive to our people. Visit is our… This is given to us by God, so we need to hold this land for God, which is a
0:01:21.8 S1: Real did not unseen, right after it says… And then they understood that he was talking about them and got mad and like Why… What just happened where you had… I don’t… Don’t get it.
0:01:35.8 S2: And that’s why… Then he leaves the city and he goes to Temple Mount, and that’s really interesting at that moment, because then he kinda knows the jig is up, he’s like, Alright, the pre… Let they know that I’m saying Israel, for the Israelites, they’re gonna come after me. So then he tells his people to go buy stores, he’s like… He’s like, I told you, you don’t need point purses, but if you got… I would go by or… And then they come back and they’re like, We’ve got two swords. And he’s like, Well, I don’t think it was gonna… Then that night, he’s freaking out and he goes up to the out of all, so this is the point that we’re already talking about, he goes up to the Mount of Olives and he’s losing his shit, he’s up there, he’s kind of him and he’s shaking, and he’s silent and yeah, he’s also repenting, but also he’s scared in a Lukas… Definitely scary, terrify wedding. And I said, the biz Sleater, drops of blood. They were so big, and then he comes back
0:02:32.0 S1: In some interpretations, it was actually blood. Oh, he was possible. Actually.
0:02:37.6 S2: It’s not a thing. Did I make that up? I don’t know, continuation that I was reading, which then they were implying the beads were as big as dropouts. Really? Set’s pretty gross was… He’s freaking out, he knows the chicks, you guys, they’re gonna come for him and he’s gonna die, he knows that’s what’s coming, and so he goes back to the camp and he wakes up everyone else and he’s like, Oh, everyone, make sure that you don’t face temptation, which is sort of what you were talking about a second ago, about the temptation of power and having a hundred for that, but also I think Jesus was freaking out ’cause he knows he’s gonna die as a eateries are coming back for him. And so he’s like, Alright, everyone’s while they were sleeping, he’s like, No, everybody get up like, Yeah, we really differentiate, they just think they’re mid-night and the students shaken with shut off Jesus.
0:03:32.9 S1: But on the other hand, is your Lord and save your… Maybe listen, wakeup werth is part of what I was talking about. I didn’t finish about Judas and how he was. In one reading that I’ve been looking at and really considering that he was actually the best Christian, because Jesus says One of you will be training, he doesn’t say a couple of you are gonna… Parade says specifically, one of you are gonna be trained. And then we know for a fact that Peter does… And you’re gonna deny me three times. Right. And so it’s like, we actually already know who that one is, it’s Peter, and if you look back through all of Matthew over and over over again, he’s questioning Jesus, He’s not believing Jesus, Jesus is getting more and more frustrated with him and to literally on the known all is, this is something that people talk about a lot too, is like, Why did this happen, is that God intercedes and talks directly into the story in a way that doesn’t ever happen really in the New Testament, and it’s to shut up Peter. He literally us peter off and say, Shut up and listen to Jesus.
0:04:43.2 S1: Out Peter, when God never intercedes, you never comes in talks directly in the New Testament, except for… To shut up Peter. And then again, in that moment when he fronted totally freaking out and he’s like, Wait on people up, he says, You can’t even give me an hour, he specifically for Peter to stay a week with him. Does Jesus ever ask for anything? No, he really doesn’t ask for anything except for you to… For his works to do good works and to follow him, but on a specific personal level, you don’t see him do that, and he was like, I’m really, really, really scared, please stay up with me and he doesn’t… And Jesus is basically part program, it’s like, Peter, you can’t give me an hour of your time. Really? Really? ’cause he knows he’s gonna die. He knows he’s gonna die. I can sleep through that. Yeah. So in this reading is Peter is the one who betrayed Jesus. Then this means Judas didn’t. So then what was Judas is whole deal, right? And how I see it is that if you go through Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Mark was written first. And then Matthew, and then Luke, and then John, but both Mark and Matthew.
0:06:02.1 S1: Judas is not specifically said by Jesus that you are the devil, that you are, that you are there, your killala, blah, blah. In Matthew, it’s very, very different. Actually, how I see it is, Judas has to do what he does in order for price to be crucified, somebody has to do that, it’s a role that has to be played, and in order to play that role, what you just have to do is literally sacrifice everything his biggest sacrifice, He sacrifices his life, he sacrifices his honor, and he sacrifices his name, he’s been kicked around, he’s the most pain person and he sent for the last 2000 years, there’s nobody that’s been hated on more than just basically, right. But they’re at the Last Supper, and Jesus is saying basically, he’s talking to both Peter and Judas at the same time saying, No one person is gonna be trained me. And peers like, Oh, it’s not gonna be me. It’s definitely not gonna be me. And Judas is like, is it me? Are you asking me to do something, I guess is what you’re telling me to… Because why would he out of all everybody else, if you like…
0:07:22.7 S1: He’s that, and Jesus is like, Yeah. Yeah. And so Judas goes, he gets the silver and we don’t hear anything, he doesn’t spend it, if he was going to portray Jesus, because he’s great, why does he keep all that money in his pocket that was not a small sum at… And he just keeps it. He doesn’t do anything with it, and then the last act, he does his kiss as a goodbye. Why it is? Why can’t you just be like, If that dude with the long hair on that one right there, it goes up and he kisses, do this good by… And Jesus says basically, and I’ll do what you need to do as encouragement juices like when Jesus encourages him, you have… This is what you have to do for me. So I see that kids from Judas to Jesus is one of those heart-breaking possibly in this reading, one of these heart-breaking, fully giving things, and then over and over and over again, Jesus is saying, I don’t want your talk, I don’t want your bullshit, I want your service, and I want all of it. I want everything, I want everything from you.
0:08:37.4 S1: And I don’t want you to talk about it, and you just don’t talk about it, you don’t hear a word from him ever throughout the entire New Testament, until he asked Jesus, he doesn’t question you this year, he doesn’t keep asking whether I do… This is the real deal. The only thing he ever says really is, what do you want for me? Is it me if you do this? And he does it and the sacrifice is perfect. So you literally just… Everything, like everything, what else can you go other than your life and to be beaten up by all of everybody forever, and
0:09:13.5 S2: You know what happens with him after that? He kills his son.
0:09:16.3 S1: Okay, yeah, so that’s the thing. So you see a one super guilty and Peter versus dudes, Peter feels real bad and sit in self-pity and Christ himself, and then goes on with his life and he was like, Oh, I’m so Amanda do this, kills himself out of grief for Jesus is lost. Iman, who felt that? Oh, and one other thing about you, one other thing, is that even in his last act, he was fulfilling another one of God’s prophecies, because they took that he through that silver down, he didn’t want it, that he’d been keeping and not spend the browse down. He kills himself and that silver is collected and created, and they use it to make a cemetery for foreigners, that having… This is called the blood fields. It, I forgot the name of it. Something, something, but it was prophecy earlier in the Old Testament that this would be something that happened, and Judas is last act was to fulfill another old Biblical prophecy and in a way that honored some of the people that Jesus love to the best, which were the foreigners which were the people that hadn’t had a place to be honored in their burial and in their desk, so I don’t know.
0:10:33.9 S1: That’s looking pretty good for Judas.
0:10:35.5 S2: It… Well, and the other thing about Peter, you’re saying that sort of Jesus is having to possibly help you, one says, You will watch over the gates of heaven, whatever you have the keys, and you think about the depictions of this in the future of Peter’s sitting in front of the gates of heaven, deciding the people coming in and out, and others… But the other way to think about that is, Jesus says, You’re never gonna make it in Everest outside Heaven for all of eternity. It’s kind of about you Toyota.
0:11:12.1 S1: I don’t know, I’m still my favorite thing ever, ’cause that’s exactly it though, not going up with the Bible is not being told what all of this means from the very beginning, so I’m reading it with fresh is and these things mean something to me in a way that seems obvious when I read it and I read the proteins like, Oh wow, I hadn’t… And there’s a lot of interesting stuff, but it’s also, I think it’s interesting to like when I read about him on the Otago, justi seriously interrupts her weapon of the
0:11:51.4 S2: Ever have it never happens. Yeah, use this guy. Got it. Terrifies her sordid to the little… Yeah, ’cause it’s so annoyed
0:12:01.4 S1: At God is in, it is all store me in at… And interject this one time, and the one time he injects a shutter up.
0:12:12.2 S2: Got up, and there’s another theme in here, and along the lines of Oshawa had about trees bad about him. He’s the trail or something. ’cause it’s like a snitch, but again and again like Jesus and the whole narrative and the Mason Mideast of the reason Jesus is keeping secret is ’cause he know, ’cause they’re in a time of rebellion, there’s also… There’s food shortages, there’s a drought going on, and so crops aren’t growing, agriculture, people are being pushed into the same… Much like what we’re seeing in Syria today, where display farmers went into the cities and then a popular social uprising of blew up, and so he knows by saying that these messages, the reason why you’re speaking in parables was so that the Pharisees wouldn’t touch on… It is that the Romans wouldn’t just come namely killed Him, so he’s quiet for a while and he’s a, uh, and that’s why he’s staying out, not in the city, he spent this verse while hanging out in these rural areas, in visiting these Tilton… She was pretty serious about security culture at
0:13:17.6 S1: One of my favorite… Not traditional interpretation of the Bible, but Matthew. Why don’t we have… You have it where the birth… Here it is. Okay, let me find it. And actually it… ’cause when I read this, I was like, Oh, that’s solid advice, Jesus. Do you say So Cheetos disciples before they head out to minister to not fight with cops, because bail is expensive. And I read that as I left really hard, I thought, That’s not how that’s usually understood it.
0:13:54.7 S2: And also just rename a people, I was like, Simon or whatever the Jesus is renaming these decide he’s giving them codenames and whatever shit that’s pretty dedicated to decorate. He’s like, Let’s stay quiet. Don’t say where it’s… Don’t enter my name. That was pretty consistently like keep the… And also the Peter thing about denying the… Denying Jesus repeatedly. It’s also like him saying, I’m to keep myself safe. And in terms of Jesus getting, getting arrested and define the rich people in the temple and overturning stuff and whatever, so he’s making this big disruption, basically, he then gets arrested and killed and you know that he has this PR team of a letter of 12 people who have been out of spreading best for 2000 years. So that’s why we still know it ’cause they had this amazing PR, but in an Road letters and traveled and talked about this dude, and that’s the whole predicting, is that one really successful direction transformed our society.
0:15:04.3 S1: Which is like, you know, that’s sort of a beautiful thought to beautiful. But where is it? This was me on the radio, we’re gonna have to edit it a lot of the swearing a lot that I can’t remember. I thought it was in Chapter 5. Oh, this is the debate was the joke is that two-pager is gonna do a radio show, there’s gonna be lots of debate
0:15:33.2 S2: About that, how do you… Do Quakers have quiet silence and how do you represent that in a radio which demands in some ways stadia. Discussion, easier knowsl. Another question about the show too, is like how much do we want to… I’m sure that for listeners, if you’re listening to a show about friendly Quakers and is the friendly invest, that you either already have an understanding of quicker is… Or that you already have an understanding of anarchism? Or they’re interested in me, so how much of an introduction do we need to give to this… I don’t know, I feel like a lot entitle
0:16:24.6 S1: Should give a good amount, they should be… ’cause that’s one of the inside to talk you about, it actually is like, Who is our audience? Who are we trying to write this for? And how broad of an audience. And I was talking, and I was talking to like a lovely little worships in a car, I prompt, after going and seeing the Messiah, that
0:16:54.5 S2: Guy. Yeah, that make sense. Okay. Music name. Amazing. He donated all that money then to open orphanages. Yeah.
0:17:06.0 S1: Good. Which is like just a toothache, had Reali worship session, and it was fun to tell her, but she was great, obviously, totally accepting. So I wanna explain the total dedication and non-violence and every day, and she’s like, I think it’s a real gift. And around on opportunity, that used to be both anarchists and Christians, you can draw in more people and it like that’s true. If the point I was thinking the point of this shouldn’t be just yourself speak, it should be the try and speak to do do something. Yeah, we’re in this space that could bring a lot of people together, and you know, the more I talk about it, the more I find non-violent angina even now, just from talking about before, like how people don’t know that these spiritual things speak to them or they don’t know that the anarchist speak to them, and so if we can somehow direct this or be cognizant of what is we’re trying to talk to, so it doesn’t end up, again, just sort of the role tend to just end up in these circle jerks. I don’t really wanna do that.
0:18:24.5 S2: I think there’s also… Quakers is really different in a religion, I grew up really hating religion, my mom was raised the Irish Catholic, and way back in the day when nuns wore habits and she went to an Irish Catholic elementary school or whatever, like a church school, and it was like, you had to wear socks that would… So you had to have skirts, the wind, so your sock said to be the same color this and that you couldn’t wear jeans, you couldn’t… It was a big deal that in Chicago and the winter women who work and… And that went on for a long time, and I remember talking about the hypocrisy in the church of people who would go in and be nice and friendly in the church, and then they would go out and fight about parking spaces. It’s just like night and day, really, the max is in Latin and no one knows. Protests, reading about early Quaker, and there’s just so many critiques of organized religion, about the abuse of religion and having to take commands and other people is… George Box at one point, talks about how he’s talking about the uterus and he’s like, no matter how much I share this piece of bread, I just can’t make myself believe that this is Christ bonuses predicate, I can’t just imagine that it’s songs on…
0:19:57.9 S2: Not the turns into flesh, but that even that can be the like… No, it’s not. This is great, I’m sorry. I do believe it, Sacramento one particular kind of worship, I gonna… An infinite number of ways that we can experience God, and if you can’t experience God, then we’re worshipping something we can’t experience and that’s ludicrous, we need to be… To have a direct experience of gotland. If we follow that experience, that we can live an ethical life, which is something that virtually no other theology really says, Every other say log says you’re born into sin, you get a die and sense for every emotion and the quick runs are like, No, no, that’s bullshit. You do the right thing and you follow you can you leave your conscience like you can live in a… The life…
0:20:48.7 S1: Well, I don’t know enough to say that that’s not true at all. I don’t think that’s probably fair question, Quakers don’t have a monopoly on ethical corino…
0:20:58.8 S2: No, no, and I’m not saying other face or don’t have ethical trajectories and practices and histories, what… That there’s this long thing about with Christianity in Catholic and Protestant traditions, that you should always just feel guilty, and that was something that I was just like… I thought that that was dumb, I was like, I’m not gonna live my life feeling guilty when as a he and I, I never read the Bible, I independent any of that sense of guilt, I’m not gonna join a church that’s gonna say I should suddenly… Now, start feeling guilty or something that I had never… Ever read before? Just gunmen, whatever. Norris don’t buy it.
0:21:39.7 S1: Well, I’ve always been pulled to spirituality and a couple of times trying to pull, pull into Christianity a little bit, but then always just so repulsed by when there’s this is hatred or just the ideas of dogma and to sort of naturally anti-attrition is the authoritarian and so something about it pulled me, but then as everything else, Assisi only beme, I became a quicker because it felt like, Oh, here’s this space where ethics and spirituality actually do fit together, and then I’m reading the Bible and I don’t know how much… I don’t know how much I really believe in the Lord and Savior is again, humming a price again, kind of stuff. Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know. So that’s complicated, that’s a weird… We’re all on our own spiritual path, but the point is when I first… When I first got into this, and I’m reading the Bible for the first time, and I’m just kinda shocked like what I’m reading, and it’s so different, and I’m just… Trisha Bible, are you meaning? I didn’t know any of this, and I was kind of frustrated. This was kept for me because the Bible and Christianity has been so project by the far right, by hatred and all of this just horrible.
0:23:17.0 S1: It’s like the Christian Church. The white Christian Corsica were both white. White American Christianity is pretty gross. Most of the time, there’s obviously exceptions, but the right has very much dominated the Christian space in this country for a long time, at least as at least since birth of the nation, I think.
0:23:46.6 S2: And there’s been this neutrality there, the nation justifying stuff because of Christian than justifying the nation saying, We sport the nation. There’s this mutual thing.
0:23:59.1 S1: Well, spirituality is really powerful, it’s a powerful, powerful tool. So of course, capitalism and authoritarianism and they’re gonna take every power to and use it against the people, so I think that’s a big mistake that the left has made was seeing spiritual power over to the right. Absolutely, that was a big mistake. I get what Mark was getting at, but I woke up on that one a little bit, and that’s what Alexandria lot of these other anarchists to… Or early anarchists are saying, not that spirituality or that God even is that it’s the institution of the church. That was that. And Jesus totally agree. I totally agrees with that, so that was…
0:24:52.3 S2: And that’s interesting too, and it’s just such an extent that feeling for a long time rents a great diver, maybe I grew up around radical politics and… What do you call? A red, red dirt, you erase the monitor that writes the bigger things at other times to us when there’s a larger communes presence, but you just do a normal thing to say it should be that, but I think that’s also reflected how people grow up around their politics and so how people are raised around religion and how religion has discussed, if it’s done in this hereditary way in which there’s no fresh analysis, that’s a real… That’s a real technician, and I was really turned off by the church because I saw it as this… I saw mainstream Christianity as an impediment to discussions about everything from a person’s right to die, and Oregon has right to die legislation that if you’re sick, they’re terminal and you’re gonna be in pain for the rest of your life, you work with your doctor to enliven… I think that’s totally just… I think it’s totally just… I think there is no visible justification to say You need to leave the rest of your life suffering and pain, Gould never can condemn that or would never do it to A…
0:26:19.4 S2: And… And so I remember reading… Doris
0:26:26.0 S1: Got her autobiography. I haven’t read it, I’m super cited. Which one?
0:26:32.7 S2: One line, the
0:26:33.8 S1: One-on-one, as I love that book that I helped me to reconcile religion and radical… I know, I’m so sorry. That’s why I got it ’cause I was really about dry day, and I’m like, Okay, that’s what I terrain. Interrupt you, I just got excited.
0:26:56.2 S2: Yeah, at one point I’m gonna… I’m gonna spoil a little bit, but she at one point, she’s in a common law matters and Intercity, I have a kid, and she finds herself increasingly pulled towards the message of Jesus, and she starts reading and she’s like, Well, blah, blah, this like I get this. I like this, I feel for this. And she comes out of Long socialist tradition, so I get it, I understand the message she’s talking about, and suddenly I started thinking about just in terms of this armada message, and in me reading the Bible, we’ve been taking about this and in leavening it ourselves. There’s so much there that I was just it and deny the line to…
0:27:44.9 S1: Absolutely, and it was frustrating, it’s like I could have had this earlier in my life because I’ve actually found it really, really helpful, I found it really hopeful and I really like it, there’s a lot there’s… There’s a lot of richness there. There’s a lot of old wisdom, and it’s a lot of… It’s old. Yeah, there’s Emily some out-of-date issues, it’s 2000 years old, let’s be fair, but there’s a lot of really rich wisdom there that I think has been denied, was denied to me because it was coded in this fall, just so gross
0:28:23.5 S2: And R and being used to justify a repression that people used to justify, especially in my lifetime in the fights for the same section, marriage inequality and non-repression and the same time, people like identifying as a Christian, just committing horrendous Aditi. M thinking of right now, in Wyoming right now, Christians gathered this game and beat him and tied into a poll and left him out to the high… That was the thing that happened. And it’s like, What do
0:28:57.2 S1: Atherstone ways? They literally winch to
0:29:04.7 S2: Sheeran also, the biblical rapped in bark wire tied to a post that it’s just
0:29:10.2 S1: Like what I think… I mean, right now, people think that people… You go look at Trump’s Facebook pain or whatever, and it’s all was like, Oh, less he was so happy at aitape. And it’s like What? The
0:29:28.3 S2: Ostentatious, ’cause it’s just like every… Even the more conservative apostles to talk about later, but even the more concern in the passes are still like, he… Fucking the rice. It’s
0:29:48.1 S1: Pretty late on that one, but he’s definitely pretty saw… Not being into that.
0:29:57.0 S2: Everything, I don’t carry money to me, Jesus has answers to all of the questions and concerns about socialism, when he was like, We’re gonna feed the people, give me what a fish you got… Will make it work. And the cost is like, really, how can we feed so many people… We just don’t have them. Just not enough to go around. He use, don’t worry about, I got
0:30:15.2 S1: This. And it’s sort of like, we got this and make it happen.
0:30:21.4 S2: And if we believe in the Jesus of the Bible, then we have to say, this is entirely possible, at least the mechanics for feeding people machinations for healing people are within our grass
0:30:34.2 S1: Well, and also one of the things that I really enjoyed, I listen to a sermon by Tim color where he’s talking about gleaning green when Jesus is on the Sabbath, goes out in Glen grain and the Pharisees come get mad at it and say, You’re breaking Sabbath rules, you’re not allowed to harvest on Sabbath. And he basically says, Fuck you. These people are hungry. And I’m reading that and I’m like, Oh my God, that’s good. No bombshell. That’s exactly what we… Oeste, break the law. These people are hungry. Don’t tell me that we can’t feed hose people because you have some stupid law that says… So that doesn’t make any sense. And he references David, he goes way back, it’s like, Look, this has been a thing for a long time, or people update and see the poor… I’m not the first guy to do this. Yeah, yeah, so it was just another moment where it connected with me, but the anarchism and the Jesus connected on this scale right there, ’cause I just… I was just so in your face. It’s just like, No, I hate. And he’s just like, No, when you’re wrong, I’m not gonna…
0:31:55.4 S2: You’re on both politically, as well as legally, as well as moral
0:32:03.3 S1: And just in general, go away trees talking about how the church and the institutions are using an overall for their own benefit and totally warping what it means, so that’s another totally calton capitalist governmental practice is to redefine it. Literally, our legal system works is sort of redefine president as you see it, right? And so that’s sort of what Jesus is saying is like, you… Yeah, you’re redefining precedent to serve your own goals, to serve your own needs and for getting the… Follow the… Not the rule of Bala, the letter of the law on this, you’re not following the spirit of Sabbath, you’re following the letters a lot because it suits your purposes of impression, and so that’s exactly the Libra undress laws. That’s what the story I’m leaving. The grain is…
0:33:09.2 S2: Yeah, right, and it’s really interesting for me to think about the Jesus who breaks laws because he knows that what he’s saying goes against the Pharisees, the Pharisees are considered the religious authority of the time, and yet he’s saying… Worry about the Pharisees, worry about what they’re gonna do. Worry about what they’re gonna say. But the Pharisees, they’re not just… They’re not just religious people at this time, ’cause they’re also the wealthiest people, and descriptions of the faroes time, they have a multi-layer gold guild and turbine with a channel for every direction, it’s been gold gilded, long flowing robes as opposed to short hangover trying to save clothes of the wellbeing about them as a religious history, that’s like an people and not doing God’s will, but also is talking about them in terms of their… They’re just overwhelming, and they’re keen and just how discussed it is by that, and he goes back to that, just one point where the apostles, they’re the cross, they feed people and then they go on their merry way and they cross the lake, and I get to other side of the lake, and they’re like, Oh, we’re gonna lay down for a night, and then when possession Sheikh…
0:34:33.1 S2: Was that a problem before? And they’re like, No, he’s like a robbo Roberto. Really gotta worry about it. He tore putting everyone off, and it’s like such a month ‘cause… And we can take care of ourselves.
0:34:50.5 S1: Basically what look we continue of ourselves, don’t worry about us, worry about the government and these corrupt religious officials who are gonna try and come and they don’t care if you have retreat, you have rather probably trying to get to…
0:35:13.6 S2: And that’s what’s for me, that’s what’s interesting about Jesus’s message, that he’s challenging so much, both his contemporary, really just not… But also, we can see the pharisees of our own, who are these churches who are just like, you know, these mega churches like, Oh, just give us money, you’re just gonna build a better building, we can see the pharisees of our day of pastors who own a billion dollar Jetta is just like the front shiver. It’s so… Gowri, don’t know. Hillside
0:35:52.0 S1: Theater, and I worked for Scientologists for a lot. Yeah, it was actually kind of fun. They’re a little… Anyway, but at one point, during their conference service, I don’t know, I don’t remember what they called it, the guy on stage, it’s literally just yelling at the crowd, Give me your money, give me your money. Give me your money, write a check. Give me your money, give me giving Kennecott, I’m not paraphrasing, just literally yelling into the audience, give me your money, and that people were coming up and really poor looking woman comes up and writes this big check and she’s looking at all the buggy and the weird… And we use this… It was so weird. It was a harness thing and… Yeah, and that’s just… So church historically have often worked as miniature societies and socialist institutions as the type was like You gave a certain percentage of your money and stuff to the church, and then the church worked as sort of a socialist mini government to sort of help out people who are in need, so that you look out through history, some of the earliest socialism… I’d have to check us historically, but from what I see now, vestiges of it and still sort of the ideology there, is that they had many socialists, localist societies acutely.
0:37:23.7 S1: You know what I mean?
0:37:24.5 S2: And for the first couple of hundred years of Christianity, there really weren’t churches as we think of them, there was lots of communes and yet the rings of people, and in some ways that’s sort of… A lot of quicker was trying to get back to when they were saying, We are not gonna have to divest, we’re not gonna have steeple houses, we’re gonna have meeting houses, we’re gonna meet where people already live, and we’re gonna pray… We’re not gonna go out and build our own churches that’s dumb, that’s a waste money, we’re gonna have
0:37:53.6 S1: Just one vent isn’t arrived and
0:37:55.6 S2: Work on to gather in our own homes, and so it was really adaptable ’cause they could go anywhere, and it was also like… They also knew that the things that they were challenging at that time were explicitly… Do the list. We’re talking about the mid-16 hundreds here. How was still a thing? There were boards and ladies, and then you had to take your hat off and bow and a Maranatha
0:38:18.5 S1: Is that at the VA
0:38:22.0 S2: Stuff, and they take their hotel plan speak and Quakers reviews, they’re like, No, you are not better than you, you do not have any earned hierarchy, which… That’s when I heard that. That’s what I think of anarchist is inherently better if you’re gonna have authority, you have bust if that… Here.
0:38:40.3 S1: There is no such thing as authority. Really? Has there’s respect authority does not exist in that… Whatn? Anti-authoritarian basically means anti-authority into the entire idea that hierarchies are legitimate in any way, and so you earn respect or you have respect for everybody, and maybe people have what might be called authority to because they know more about something or they have more experience with something, but that is respecting some of his experience and knowledge, it’s different than respecting their authorities specifically because… You know what I mean?
0:39:23.3 S2: And there’s also a lot about intentions and harm, there’s a hierarchy between transits about this about between parents and children. If the child is about to wander industry with his cars, higher role of the parents, does me to pull that child back and that’s a legitimate use of authority, and then it’s specifically intended to prevent immediate harm, and that is… That’s a real thing. And that’s a way in which I think Antipas do support Hardin. And there are places in which the posts, which Quakers ask the state to reduce and become smaller, military, stop, don’t crush people, respect people’s previous, and there’s places where Apis actually want the state to increase, they say, We want car production, we want to… It’s a ton, there’s
0:40:13.9 S1: A lot of different kind of anarchism, but that is the kind of anarchist known Chomsky wanted… He said he was trying to explain how people didn’t understand, I was like, Yes, you do bigger government for a better social system in the meantime while you work, or because it’s a privilege to say that people in immediate harm and danger don’t deserve whatever protection you can get them within the system that you have, yet difficult… That’s a difficult for that, that’s a… That’s a operation that… That’s a whole another complicated conversation, but what I think is funny is that, yeah, if you think about the love community and these ideas of these walls, or right at the beginning of Christianity, when Christians were seriously oppressed and sought out and murdered, they really were created very badly, but I know they had these little separate communes and at their things, it’s like… And that’s the sort of thing that Christians now really pull to and say like, Look, we know oppression 2000 years ago, we totally experienced it, and so that’s what they pull and it’s like, Oh, so what you’re saying is the best part of Phocas, when you were all anarchist.
0:41:27.7 S1: Yeah, so that’s when you were pressure actively working against the large governmental religious institutions of the time, living in small local self-sustaining communities.
0:41:49.4 S2: There’s this great moment in St. Augustine, the book, Confessions, and his book that’s basically trying to convince people and 300 to join… To join the state. And it’s funny ’cause at that time, people didn’t need silently, everyone read everything about, so everything had to be community understood, which is why the whole opening the paragraph of this book is like, I love… God is the Almighty. Greatest, wonderful. Fantastic, so that every person reading and head to hear that every person reading is about, which is very consular had to have it open and be back to everything that’s around immediately became a guy… Sellers is a body. It’s like a small child hijacking a political like that it’s gonna give a political speech or something, I don’t know, and a small child gets up and is like, look at boats like that.
0:42:57.3 S1: It’s a current to… That we may be a little bit less or us, but it’s also the whole anarchist thing. So there is, it’s just funny, religion is really, really a board and hated in a lot of the anarchist commute, although we are here, and there is a other subset of anarchism that isn’t in the same realm of that, I think there’s a growing sense of spiritual energy which is what I mean, we’re doing this is to speak to that the more that is more that I dealt into it and the more I talk to about it, the more I find more and more people who are really, really interested in this sort of revival, ’cause if you talk about what anarchism really is. It’s a very optimistic view of humanity. Totally, totally. And it’s a very optimistic… It sits right into the quicker idea of the light within, that we all… We all have a lease, all are connected to Divinity, they’re all connected to something that connects all of us as we’re all connected to something that connects all of us. I mean, Anand Burman even has to talk about people saying at the same time, Oh, you’re all violent doubles, and you also think that we all have to be angels in order for anarchism to work, so there is this a real kind of spiritual underpinning to anarchism.
0:44:27.4 S1: Even if it’s in the right, a lot of antiques and we are totally right to condemn religious institutions for the impression and parts of impression, the partly in oppression. But it is really, really interesting, and I’m seeing right now with a lot of people that I know also just revival of this per spirituality and we live in really scary times, there’s a lot of real uncertainty in the future, so that makes sense. And I feel like that core, that rounding is really, really important, whether or not it’s a Christian or whatever else to the idea of that spiritual grounding, and that’s something I find both in Quakerism as well as anarchism, and so to me, they’re actually… It’s not that they just fit together well, that they’re the same thing, they’re both sort of grounding in this idea that humans basically a poor injustice and basically have a light with it and on a very basic level, want a peaceful… Just equal, equal world, but then we corrupted by power, were corrupted by this false need for hierarchy that we’re told that we need, we’re so bent to try and find these systems of oppression, but without those…
0:45:42.5 S1: It would work. It really would work, and I think that’s a really beautiful view of how the humidity works and I think it’s true. I really think it’s true.
0:45:50.9 S2: It’s interesting you say that, ’cause a couple of years ago I was at… I went to a quick retreat or whatever, and I was listening to Quakers, they had a meeting house and they were debating about whether or not they should have… They had an insurance policy to ensure their child care workers to offer child care in the meeting considering you, and they’re debating about where people had to sign waivers, but what if someone was undocumented and they say, Well, but we really want this insurance policy, what should we go back and forth and maintain, and I was just thinking, What the fuck do we have an insurance policy on his house, why aren’t we meeting in actual houses intimate, this whole… How spend money on this thing? On this institution, what they could use that money for helping people Israel.
0:46:41.1 S1: Those things where it’s like we had just plain wines in a rug because we had… ’cause that’s what they had. But now it’s like you have a really nice plan, really nice wooden Ventura and the whales. Although I have to say, one of the reasons I became a Quaker, ’cause I was in those meeting houses in Philadelphia for the first time back this last summer when I was at the DNC, state… That’s another thing. Anyway, I was at… I went to two beautiful bigger meeting houses for the Socialist convergence, for the people’s convention, and I just walk into that space and there’s something so all beautiful just in those existences, and I really do enjoy that kind of architecture, so I think there is something lost just by meeting… Just in a house. I think there’s something really nice about having these sort of spiritual spaces, but there was also something about it where it was really clean, it was really simple, it was nicely designed, beautifully designed, but it also wasn’t ostentatious in any way, and really… That really appealed to me.
0:47:55.5 S2: One of the things that I really like about Quakerism is that there is one, and there is this hosted, I’m not gonna dress up and find witches, and there’s also this sincerity with that, I’m not gonna be tanith, not gonna lie to you, I’m not gonna bullshit you
0:48:11.0 S1: What’s your BA and your
0:48:15.6 S2: Nobu? The same times I went to the sedating and I was thinking about the ionians, I was also… I wrote up a post that was on AENEAS quicker revival. Well, yeah, ’cause I was just thinking of the time water seemed to be failing. The UN program maker meetings. It’s just like any tiny, tiny group, it’s like there’s fewer than 5000 the program at a really… Yeah, that’s it. Yeah, it’s about the same size that the industrial work is the world of which…
0:48:46.8 S1: And there’s some overlap there. So really.
0:48:50.5 S2: I actually, actually… But what’s interesting about that, to me is that there’s… Both groups have really fundamental roles in shaping United States, they just… One group, how… There’s a book that came out a couple years ago, how the Quakers made America that at one time in the United States, a quarter of the US population was Quaker. That’s a really… That’s a real real thing. Yes, and what happened was that as a result of participation in war and there was all the various splits, people dropped out or were here for meetings, and the purge… They say, by Quakers. Yeah, and then you can’t be a part of this meeting if you go and serve in the Civil War, and that was the biggest single loss in line membership was because you had all these people say, we have preached against slavery for generations now, for decade after decade after decade after connected, and here comes the war to say, let’s finally put a fucking into it and make it a win in five faced out. Now, for the North East against Lee.
0:50:01.7 S1: That was like for the North, that makes sense. And then they got… For being an wollaton out of their people, mantis is something… We’ll talk about this, you talk about in the violence thinks the idea that makers are strictly, strictly important, all violence and caracal there is this tradition as Quakers deciding to serve in the military for various reasons.
0:50:28.4 S2: And there’s another time the military there that… And I wanna look up more details on this, the Quakers also, you still hold a lot of databases and when the US voted to go to war, and I think it was like the War of 1812 might have even been the solution or takes pulled back from local acts and said, basically, we can down the United States. Erikson was a Quaker though. Yeah, well, but he wasn’t… He stopped quicker before he… Oh yeah, yeah, he was like… He was buttocks
0:51:02.2 S1: A big old branch of things, there’s some very, very different, very fundamental indices, very conservative by sexually, but
0:51:13.2 S2: I think that you’re on to some of his idea about reviving quicker, but Quinn really speaks to a lot of
0:51:18.9 S1: Different Bastien things. Yeah, and I’ve talked to people about it and I’m like, they have all these questions is for about dogma? It’s like, Well, no, actually, we don’t do that. We don’t believe that the word is literally the word necessarily… Your Tony front. And so I tell people that there’s actually a few atheists in our meeting and what… Yeah, it’s different, it’s the idea that you meet people where they’re at and go, let you where you’re at. Sits, a different thing. I’ve really… But here’s the thing is that I worry about talking to it, I obviously love being quicker as Ben, a huge influence to my well-being in my life, but I really worry about talking about that because the other thing that’s so great or Purim is that We don’t… Evangelize. So I don’t really wanna go down that were awesome, even though outlined
0:52:25.5 S2: Donut, to touch on that, there’s a difference we evangelizing and going somewhere and having an honest discussion, ’cause I think it’s also… It’s kosher waters that… ’cause there’s a lot of amazing things and then not talk about it
0:52:39.2 S1: Is, Okay, this is so funny, ’cause that’s the same thing that happens to enter it, we’re so non-performative in the ally ship sometimes that nobody knows on the burning and the
0:52:50.9 S2: Tristano friend and will hopefully be on a show later, but you’re saying there’s all these stories about the Quakers do-appeasing amazing things, but they don’t ever talk about it, and then maybe they’ll write a short article that doesn’t… And publishing it anonymously, The Times about a few things about what they did, and it’s like I served 17 years shoveling people back and the worth to get abortions in Mexico as an mothers arrest and a lives and all these things. But would never talk about that. I would never say a word.
0:53:29.2 S1: But that’s the rat’s the true gospel to… That’s the two… Is you just saying, Don’t talk to… Yeah, a dower of the D. James goes on and on about that Thoth need. But also, that’s anything that is in a revolution, we’re trying to get other people to also do the… Do do you do that? And that’s one of the things that’s frustrating for me personally about the whole argument about violence essence, so much time is given to the violent part of anarchist culture, which is not all reflected in all of anarchism is not all reflected in all… In anarchist theory, and it’s only a little part… Well, first of, this is a whole another episode or he’s gonna one time on, but you have to discuss the fact that we’re talking about Quaker anarchism, people like bakers or prisoner, kids are violent. It’s like That’s way more complicated than that, and it’s just us… It’s frustrating to me, frustrated a lot of anarchists, no matter how you feel about anti-violence and non-violence or whatever, that’s… Just the double standard, the huge double standard between somebody bombing a black church and killing tons of people, and he likes who says their Christian like anyone a little like, Oh, is it a one little note and then you punch a non…
0:54:53.4 S1: Everybody slips the hell out, so that’s another thing I have is I have really strong opinions on whether or not violence should be actually chosen as a method of social change, which we’ll talk about, but the point that I’m getting at is that it’s more complicated than that, and that deserves a real discussion.
0:55:16.3 S2: And I think that’s the first thing when we started talking about the show is the difference between Anakin Quakers and… So I wrote it, I was like, Let’s first along a strange relationship between Quakers and anarchists, the stereotype of anarchists like CLAD and black historically bombed through it, more recently, it’s Windows, Mastodon, rotational enemies in a state where Quakers are starters like super quiet, constructive community building obedience friendly people who help slaves capes a few sanctuaries to go to the Civil more than now talks about it, that you almost could not find two more unlikely stereotypes and incompatible. There it is. And yet, we know that there are insurers and Quakers who are anarchists, and you know that these histories, histories and stories are contested, they’re quakers who are arrested in droves and Anoka super responsible to mutual aid and undergoing in very harrowing circumstances. As he learned in the Spanish Civil War and also provide medical and food aid after a senior
0:56:24.0 S1: Right now at NCIS are doing increase… It’s amazing, the refugee work they’re doing, of course, right now it’s going broken up things they’re being attacked and broken up by all sorts of stupid people, but yeah, so there is this strong, strong strain and anarchism, a community, very Christian. I’m gonna make the argument that Atticus are much better Christians and the most Christians, much better actually giving up everything in your life in order to help the poor, actually getting really frustrated in the face of people being so cold in a depression watching oppression happen and not feeling anything about it? That’s so frustrating to watch. And the animist feel that, and Quakers felt, early Christians felt that. As far as the humility thing… Oh, well, of course, the big joke being that black bloc is basically playing dress.
0:57:25.2 S2: That’s like we issued the fancy fancy were to live simply and so a dress in a clean clothes and very simple closed and so plain dresses either all day or all black, being a simple no tryouts, not patios. And I think that there is… There’s something more similar to Quakers, just… They have some overlap here. That quicker… Talk about the direct experience of God. And that this perceives the loyalty to the state or the rich and powerful, they refused value to risk people, and they broke undertow and the quickest made dearly throughout the centers for this with their immediate to God causes just this contestant of questioning and anarchist ask themselves a lot of the same questions in terms of their personal relationship to power, and as a rule, just like don’t accept power relationships as they are just on the grounds and things have always been this way, this was not acceptable to… Internet’s
0:58:22.6 S1: Not acceptable, period.
0:58:26.1 S2: And this doesn’t mean that Anarchists never agree with any state action or must always seek a state with society, or we were talking about this and there’s some finesse there, and there’s a lot of arguments about where are we now in relations things, but anyway. But enemas are constantly demanding of the state, and that all power relationships have the ability of willing to justify these, they must have a justifiable reason for their power is this… And this way, ancient Quakers are constantly asking the same question, What is Just because ask this in the moral way, will envisages in the SOW, which… Because divergences, but they’re basically asking the same thing and quickest, the right relationship with God that God would have with us in heaven, sounds or marketing like the interest question… Is this power excited? Violent of quorn anyway.
0:59:15.4 S1: Oh, well, the course of things, yeah, absolutely. So quicker are against coercion entirely, and then anecdote is based in the idea that coercion and a society that there is no coercion. So that’s the same… That’s the same thing. That’s the same principle. So I have a penduline here. Pendle pamphlets were just these little pamphlets made by Quakers, the idea being that we don’t believe in dogma, so everybody has their own experience with God and can write it down, so we all get to write our own little essays on our experience with spirituality as opposed to just reading, only the Bible is word. Right, have this here one of them, the first second in tired Pendle Hill pamphlets. And so these are back Riddick in the 30s, and they’re pretty bad, like radical rate, first one’s called cooperation, the very first very first Mendelian, let was called cooperation and cohesion as methods of social change. So that’s your Quaker dot. The second one, it’s called a religious solution to the social problem, they talk all about authoritarianism, and then the third one is called the value of voluntary simplicity in, and that goes into a lot of real basic anti-capitalist stuff.
1:00:41.4 S1: So what does it mean to not live in a consumer society, what does it mean to live simply? And so the idea of living simply, which is a very, very quick concept, and the idea of what it actually means to be in a non-consumers, non-capitalist society are very mostly related, the idea that you don’t need a bunch of just stuff and actually all that stuff is not, do not need it, it’s bad for you, or it’s bad for your soul. It’s bad for society. You know what I mean? What Menashe… All these highlighted stuff that I need to…
1:01:35.3 S2: One of the things that I like is that Quakers asked these questions and anise asking these questions, and they often come towards similar concessions. They do, probably… And it’s interesting when you start looking at what are the hot button issues of today, right, within anarchism, they would say prison abolition and opposing the new Jin proves idea that we’re just throwing away people of color or half of the US Prison Systems, people tethers the largest prison system in the world, despite having a population of Donal, China has a billion people and they have less prisons, so there’s something really awful going on there, and Quakers also note both of reconciliation, alternative justice and prison reform saying something is really wrong here, is restorative justice. And Anika say, We oppose all orders, and Quakers really fall hard and love thy neighbor of the American principale neighbor in Prentiss. No exceptions, which I kind of think I say slogans. Some resistance has to be at best, a little says Good. And Ankit say, We want a society with Liberty for gender, race, class, ability to want an equal society, and quicker say that God is in all people, which is part of the quick of testimony of Equality, which is one of the five main testimonies.
1:03:11.6 S2: And Niki also say, We oppose any of arbitrary authority and quite say, Yeah, follow your conscience, not the law, like the law of the land is not the wall of your content, you have to follow your conscience, whatever that takes you… That opposes the law, and that there’s remarkable over that here in Quaker and Interphase philosophy going back centuries, and I think that that’s important, and I think that’s… For me, I say that Quakers are the anarchists of religious community.
1:03:39.1 S1: Oh, absolutely. It’s also this really interesting dynamic that can be hard to explain, it was hard for me to understand at first, all way back in the day when I first started doing anarchist theory and all of these things that people have a hard time understanding is one of the main people criticisms that come about saying, Well, how can you be offer libertarian personal freedom and for Socialist community, at the same time, it’s like, well, that’s actually been solved by Quakers, the idea that we all have our own specific journey and path and relationship to something bigger, at the same time, that that personal relationship to something bigger is what strengthens our sense of community, and sort of the same underpinnings of what an anarchist society would look like is the idea that it’s creating incentives in a sense, is that… What’s good for an individual is good for the community and all… So when those incentives line up, it’s not a contradiction for your own personal freedom being and having a strong in this fact that ends up being the same thing. And that’s something that Quakers have been practicing for a long time. I mean, and more than that, if…
1:05:00.3 S1: This is something that I think a lot of Americans struggle with is, ’cause there’s really in a showing of community in the United States that we would say We don’t collectively on the idea of the idea of the Manatee living in your own home is apparently… In some ways, antithetical to community, ’cause you’re not based around other people, it’s a way of shutting off into personal interaction and… So anyways, but one of the things that having lived in co-ops and commune life situations a couple of years, one of the things that I have experienced is that we… That community set a goal and says, This is something that we wanna do, we have a meeting, we plan it out, let’s have these actions together. When they go, Well, everyone pours themselves into it, and the project becomes everyone, it’s not just a matter of, Oh, my personal real lines up with this is that this project is my will.
1:05:56.1 S2: I will this project too, because we decided it together, and that becomes… Not magical, but incredibly powerful, incredibly driving. And that’s something that the idea that everyone should write their interest, I don’t… In some ways, I… Alastor doesn’t make sense too. When people are working together in a sincere Common Cause, it’s both the most beautiful and empowering thing, and simultaneously is also incredibly productive, right. ’cause many hands make it work in math, really quite good for us. So there’s that, and I think that that’s something… I think that’s one of the reasons why social and the struggle in the United States, and why a lot of radiologists have struggled and his them also that… A lot of these ads are predicated, this idea that when you’re working together, when the entirety of the dominant deciding they say is set up to say no individual, so you just do this thing and allow your… Whatever you do, you… It’s like sometimes there’s a… Meiosis is really bad about me in US, there are times the US and US is, okay, is the people we could do four filters to justify a super strong state, and it’s like that…
1:07:23.2 S2: Well, it’s the only context in which people can come together and find meaning…
1:07:27.6 S1: Well, it’s again, a authoritarian using leftist ideology to justify their horrific actions, so the only time you end up with a W or a US is when you can bend that to the will of holding an authoritarian depressant tanegashima the reins to his will. Did you know I just spend on the coin was an anarchist Christian? The fuck, I did not know that. That’s amazing.
1:07:55.4 S2: And specifically not the bombs, the right
1:07:57.7 S1: Kind… Better wording, a general kind of a writing about habits. And
1:08:04.0 S2: I think there’s something… I was looking for a quote that I remember, but there’s… There’s something utopian, Anand, that this vision of the possibility of another world pickers, we want this world on earth in the horses supposed to bring heaven down to… Exactly, I have… Ananda, very powerful question is like, Well, how would people of color Bettino should we treat the honor as white religious people, and there’s all kinds of privilege, but also the questions about the power relationship with Eden is just crushing and damage when compared to what we do today, in the United States, and the historical relationships with indigenous people and historical relationships with every immigrant community, and also just like conquering in colonialism and violence, ardabil, all the things coming. That’s the thing. And one of the things that I need to about crisis, that there’s this… Well, back up, so I think the idea of the show, friendly Quakers, it’s a nice multiplicity of meanings in
1:09:41.7 S1: A friendly… Amicably anarchist. Friendly anarchism. The friendly anarchists as in the step or what I wish are called. What do you do?
1:09:50.5 S2: I thought, Well, I don’t know, I feel like God, you black inferiority lack every
1:10:04.0 S1: Know that one. They’re great.
1:10:06.5 S2: Write their band exclamation points in a different position, I… Oh.
1:10:09.6 S1: I didn’t know that.
1:10:13.2 S2: Yeah, organises friendly in and is friendly or whatever. It’s all the same. But yeah, and I think of the idea of water, that’s a early… If it’s really been like, right.
1:10:35.2 S1: The name of Baker is an insult.
1:10:37.3 S2: ’cause I was taken from members of the religious society of friends who in who are on trial and they were afraid for the sentence I was about to come down from a judge into the judges mocked was like, You’re taking your pointers over there, and that was the name of Stockley, were on attunement and the judges think… Or one of them. In the court, typically. Right.
1:11:06.2 S1: But I’m not that we reclaim that. That’s right.
1:11:08.2 S2: Yeah, I like
1:11:08.6 S1: To typical… An hour and 11 minutes. Now I’m gonna get some water Vespasian. Actually, I’m gonna get some… Issuing out, This is integrators, and I go to this turns out, Okay, estate should just do this though… Yeah, much to talk about, and it’s really dynamic and organic when we’re just talking to just go to a bar and set it up after we had just to make sure that you Heather, the editing out the noise and
1:12:17.4 S2: The tent in the background like that.
1:12:21.5 S1: So it wouldn’t be just a lot easier on us too, just as we have this renewed, have a list in formation and is complete information and just have a talk. I think that could be fun. And then sometimes I have people on that actual interviews, a little bit like a… Trying to fill up or… I don’t know how else we’re gonna do it… Yeah, forehea he horo. I assorte or that… Great. Actually have to get going, Frese.
1:15:30.2 S2: I read one passage, so this is from my past that from Quakers and Nazis about the Quakers in Germany before war, before durnford, but it’s the German makers to The for one that are basically no craters insurer at the end of Olathe none. And so quickest showed up and did a bunch of an award as a long history after more would show up and do medical and work, it is to Palestine to… There was a quick Esalen, all of the early camps and what we think of as the UN mandate to help Red and so on came out of Quaker work that was like a… Is there is after the a worker… After the end, Quakers, there was enough QuickTime E-there’s 200 Air or something, it was pretty small tree, but they had a quick meeting and just in 1931, in Littler is coming to power ethers, a lot of handy semitism, Navin attacks. And at one point the… There’s been… This isn’t Cristal at, but there’s a big burning, there’s the Jewish synagogue was burned and quicker, they wrote the letter, the German Elmer, a letter to them and they said, one part of that, we feel responsible and guilty for this act because we have not done enough to de-contaminate the hateful atmosphere, we therefore ask her forgiveness for what has been done to you, which is on the one hand, a little bit like you’re asking from givens is a little here, ’cause you necessarily…
1:17:16.7 S2: But it speaks to the condition that there are so many bad things going and they felt like a responsibility for that, and that’s something that I feel today in our world in terms of both a… A tax of Jewish communities that are happening, there’s a cemetery that was Rovers, but also just in terms of the US engagement in the world and hustle were now on the 14th anniversary of the invasion of Iraq as operation and the hundreds of thousands of… Sandlin dad was thousand of the US soldiers dead, and just the total deviation of the infrastructure of the road, there’s this real question about what is our collective responsibility to nation as the empire of the world, what we prosopis, and that’s something that… As a Quaker and inner fish, I feel just absolutely racking the field that no matter what I do, arrest or not arrest in action or non-action, nothing stops the war, and it just goes on and on line, and I just feel like… I feel, I try, I feel like I still shaken, but something is fundamentally wrong that I cannot stop this thing that it’s being done in my name.
1:18:37.4 S1: But that’s exactly what’s great about Pieris and Quakers and anarchism, is that the idea is that you can’t do it alone. That’s what community is for speckles to Taranto that. And then we can’t just feel guilty, we have to just do stuff… And gills isn’t really that helpful. Unfortunately, and Jesus didn’t spend a lot of time just feeling bad about… Bad about stuff, just like, Go do stuff. Just go do stuff. Let your action speak. And I don’t think I would have enough personally or strength personally to do it without community without God. For me, personally, I need both of those things, and I need the strength and the courage that comes. Different aspects of both of those traditions are tradition and anarchist to be able to do anything, and I feel I’m still just starting to get out there, and I haven’t been doing it, unitarianis doing enough, but I think I kind of needed both… I kind of needed to reconnect with a spiritual part of me, and I need to reconnect with truly anarchist political and spiritual stance, ’cause you’re kind of the same thing to be able to have enough ability to do this work.
1:20:27.1 S1: So it’s hard work. So I hope that what we’re doing can help other people see that the strengths and community, and there are people doing this work, and that… Is there secular ethical drive isn’t sustaining you… There is this whole other tradition of having a spiritual sustenance available and help available, and that means to… And not everybody needs that. I personally really did need that, it’s very hard on me emotionally, I needed that connection with community and with spirituality and with God in order to bolster my strengths to do difficult social justice work, and that has a strong tradition to spiritual work and Christian work also has a very strong role in social justice for centuries and centuries and centuries. It’s been really nice for me to to tie into that as well, to find more strength and more precedent and more examples of people being able to take on this kind of really difficult stuff and be good at it and keep it up and not burn out and
1:21:44.4 S2: I feel like that’s part of the Intifada bed.
1:21:52.3 S1: There is a deep radical bent… I think Jesus was a radical.
1:21:55.1 S2: Yes. And it’s not just like radical, is it gonna do terrible things that may be saying there for centuries, and even Mark notes that he’s like, I’ve read all the capital, but he makes reference to the Christian communities, I’m like stories that sort of… Or some of the ways that we’re headed for the slightly better
1:22:25.7 S1: World. Yeah, let me read my passage now that Alexander Berkman, well-known anarchist, immigrant American anarchist. Let’s see the… The very well known for having bombed some people in Kitimat proponent for the propaganda of the deed, which is where you do violent acts to show what needs to be done for… To start revolution. But after Russia, he came out thinking very differently about that, that’s again another thing for our non-violence podcast, as Alexander Berkman right before he died, came out very strongly against the idea of violent revolution, he referred the idea of a general strike
1:23:18.5 S2: To two was a really big ask Miss Christian with a lot of mastering. It was basically God and… And talking about the artery intrastate, while also describing a very strong terms, the need for her peaceful action, and the state didn’t like him and he wanted to arrest him, but he was just so popular in the elitism thing with them, the Pulsar movement that was being sort of focused around one woman who became the nexus of all of this religious fervor and also a little bit of rebellion, but also demanding, demanding and social in the Soviet era sometimes in a lot of ways that the community is sort of inspiration and also starts… Actinides.
1:24:28.8 S1: It definitely does. There’s a long strain of the idea of the Christian thing, a source of inspiration and protection, the liberation theology movement and black liberation theology or… Definitely requires a whole loan, but for now, I wanna read this passage from ABC anarchism by Alexander Berkman, is number per… Well, this is the AK Press reprint of the page number is not gonna be the same in that in the original. But if you’re following along, kids, What is anarchism working class series are… And it is page 61. Alright, this very day, institutionalized religion is the Judas of its alleged Savior, it approves of murder and more of which slavery and capitalistic robbery and always stands for the Alan order which crucified the Nazarene, consider Jesus wanted all men to be brothers, to live in peace and goodwill the church upholds inequality, National strife and war. Jesus condemned the riches vipers and oppressors of the poor, the church bow before the rich and accumulates baseball. The Nazarene was born in a manger and remained a pop or all his life, his alleged representatives in spokesman tales, Jesus preached meekness, the princes of the church are hot and purse proud.
1:25:55.5 S1: As did you unto the least of my children in Christ that you do and to me, the church supports the capital system, which in slaves little children and brings them to an early grave, that shall not kill command or the Nazarene, the church of pros of executions and more, Christianity is the greatest hypocrisy on record, and either Christian nations or individuals practice the precepts of Jesus, it is true that if we could follow the precepts of the Nazarene, this would be a different world to live in, there would then be no murder and no war no cheating and lying and proven making there would be neither slave nor master, and we should all live like brothers and peace and harmony, they would either… There would be neither poor or rich, neither crime nor prison, but that would not be with the church wants, it would be what the anarchist wants or orator… Righte, right. Agents kind of Christian wants. Yeah.
1:26:52.1 S2: And I think that’s a nice note to end on is that… They’re a Quaker in Pinterest that are Quakers existen. And it’s good to be too, and we’re inspired by so many things that are happening in rise in thorndon in freshwater, a Freedom Party and Franklin re-it, and of course, our own. Yeah, and then Don Trump with every kind of testing that can be set, and I really think that it’s inspiring that there is a long history of resistance, and also that there’s some… We can join together in solitary and in just like the most…
1:27:56.6 S1: And I think there’s this spot that’s so important that’s growing, this sort of religious and spiritual… Radical left. Yeah, I meet more and more people who are really interested in this. The more we talk about this, the more… I mean, people who are really, really into this idea, and then there’s this mesh, there’s this middle, there’s this spot that needs to be filled, I’m so excited that we’re here talking about it. It’s so great.
1:28:24.3 S2: And I’m tired to have, I’m tired of hearing this idea that the Christian Rite, his monopoly on the religion, that’s boshin will not see my religious disease in my faith, because there is this other corrupting force, say
1:28:41.7 S1: What I say is that spirituality and religion is something that’s also been co-opted and corrupted by capitalism, so it’s throwing baby out with the bath water there to say that all religion and all spirituality is the evil, it’s another thing that’s been just stolen and crushed and co-opted by capitalism and authoritarianism that we need to reclaim that I’m gonna reclaim. I’m doing it right now. We’re doing it, we’re doing it. Alright. Alright, thank you, friends, friendste.uyjp0-[n
